Nimblekit 1.5 beta 10

[sunny]

yes, sure, fixing one last bug now and ready to release

[jbardi]

Though 3.0 is definitely an improvement, I think there's still far too big of a chunk of iphone and ipod touch users who are using 2.2 for me to build my app against anything else. I am hoping to submit my app to the appstore sometime in the next 2 weeks, so I would be grateful if we could get 2.2 working by then.

Personally, that statistics show that the majority of users are on 3.0. The only people still using 2.2 at this point are mainly those that wouldn't be buying your app because they aren't keeping up with current events much less visiting the app store or people that are running Jailbroken iphones and are afraid to upgrade. Its time to move on. 3.0 is a free upgrade, so there is no reason people shouldn't have done so already. Check the statistics online and you will see the majority of users are already moved to 3.0

There are way too many features for developers to take advantage of in 3.0 for us to be punished because of a few people holding out on upgrading. Push notification alone is 90% of why developers were excited about 3.0 and I am not about to lose out on several applications currently in development that depend on Push notification just because you think 2.2 is still viable.

Just to let you know, if your application does not compile against the 3.0 SDK, it will be immediately rejected by Apple. They are no longer accepting applications that will not run fully compliant on 3.0, so I hope you have already tested your App on the 3.0 SDK or you are wasting your time.

[Mografi]

My girlfriend has an ipod touch and is still using 2.2, because it costs money ($10 every major release, i think) to upgrade for ipod users.

I would think this would keep a good amount of ipod touch users from upgrading for a while.

She does use the app store and buy apps. So I would rather release an app that is stable and usable for those people as well as 3.0 compatible. More potential users = more potential profit.

[Andy Baird]

As you'll see if you read my comments posted elsewhere in this forum, I originally agreed with your point of view: stay 2.x compatible and maximize the audience.

But the real world has proven me wrong. Stats show the majority of iPod touch/iPhone users upgraded soon after 3.0 was announced. In short, your girlfriend is in a small and shrinking minority. And really, doesn't it seem rather silly to spend $200-$300 on a device and then refuse to spend $10 once a year... especially when that $10 buys you major new features in the form of a completely painless software upgrade?

In any case, as jbardi mentioned, Apple automatically rejects apps that are not 3.0 compatible, so you and your girlfriend might as well "get with the program." :-) The benefits gained are worth a lot more than ten bucks, in my humble opinion.

Andy Baird

[razilon]

As of about a month ago, depending on your data source, the 3.0 adoption rates were all over the place. It looks to me like around 40% of iphone and ipod touches are still running 2.2, with a larger predominance among ipod touch users because of the upgrade fees:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/ ... -os-30.ars

Personally, I'm a developer and I buy apps pretty routinely, but I didn't upgrade my ipod touch to 3.0 until yesterday when I needed to test the app I'm developing. I agree that there's ample reason for people to upgrade even with a small fee, but that doesn't mean they will.

I also agree that catering to the lowest common denominator shouldn't hinder the development of bigger and better things. If the nimblekit developers can include 2.2 compatibility with little extra effort, they might as well. If it's a big pain to do so, as always, it's up to them to decide when to draw the line. It's their product, so I'll just have to take their development decisions into consideration when I decide what's appropriate for me to use on particular projects.

No harm, no foul. If people feel the need to keep debating this issue, we should probably take it to another thread, rather than hijacking the beta10 one.

[Andy Baird]

"If the nimblekit developers can include 2.2 compatibility with little extra effort, they might as well. If it's a big pain to do so, as always, it's up to them to decide when to draw the line."

Agreed. If there were no drawbacks, then of course wider compatibility would always be preferable. But Sunny and Alex have said elsewhere that maintaining dual 2.x/3.x compatibility beyond this upcoming version would be a substantial amount of extra work for them, so it seems pretty certain that it isn't going to happen. And fortunately for us developers, as more and more users upgrade to OS 3.x, this issue is diminishing in importance, so in the long run we won't have to worry about it. Personally, I'm not worrying about it now. :-)

Andy Baird

[jbardi]

My girlfriend has an ipod touch and is still using 2.2, because it costs money ($10 every major release, i think) to upgrade for ipod users.

She does use the app store and buy apps.

Well, lets break this down... she doesn't want to upgrade because of the $10 cost, yet you claim she buys apps at the app store, for at least 99 cents a piece... hmm I'm not seeing the $10 being a problem here.

It is the same thing with Snow Leopard that is coming out for Mac computers in September. There will be a longer wait for that because everyone has to pay to upgrade, but it will only be $29 instead of $129 like normal single user Mac OS upgrades, but I guarantee all the new Apps on the block are going to start requiring Snow Leopard.

Apple is not doing any new fixes for 2.2 and any official Apple apps that are updated will be 3.0 only as well. If Apple is unwilling to continue to support its own apps on 2.2, why should Nimblekit be the martyr that holds out?

Keep this in mind... the only reason there is still this supposed 40% of users on 2.2 is because there are still apps coming out that run on 2.2, so if we keep catering to the lowest common denominator, then they will never upgrade. If all the apps that start coming out do not run on 2.2, your girlfriend will have no choice but to upgrade, you see? It is not cruel, it is evolution. Those that can not adapt will die out!

P.S. - heres a nice boyfriend thing to do... surprise her with a gift by buying her the 3.0 upgrade, you can afford to spend at least $10 on her after paying $99 ($198 total) to both Apple and Nimblekit, right... that is if you actually paid!

[jnorberg]

Sunny, any status on this?

The onPageShown event never fires if the page is accessed from the auto generated "more" list in the tab controller.

Steps to recreate:
Create a tab controller with more than 5 tabs.
On the sixth page add a NavController object and define the function onPageShown

Observe:
The onPageShown event never fires.

Also, the same event still only fires on the second visit to said page when it is in the main tab bar.

I am not sure if it is related or not but this issues sounds related to this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=261&p=840

I checked and this is still an active issue in Beta 10.

[sunny]

"more" tab and navigation controller for it are created by system and can be accessed but it's very complicated in NimbleKit architecture, I'm trying to fix that

[Mografi]

You guys are hilarious. I am just trying to point out my girlfriend's situation, because, it is factual, and probably representative of a user group that I never consider (because I'm a huge nerd/early adopter). These people may want to buy my app (which doesn't use any 3.0 features), and I want more people to be able to by my app, simple business math (more potential customers = more potential profit). My app is already 3.0 compatible, and yes, I have paid for both nimble kit and apple licenses, sheesh.

Just saying, I have no way of knowing whether she represents 1% of users, or 90%, but, I'd rather be able to sell to those users (mostly ipod touch users who are more casual than hardcore nerds/iphone owners).

...Now, bring on more humorous girlfriend advice!